You need to have a set of accurate digital 0.00 scales and sit the glass roll in top set to zero and then very accurately measure the … Lights, Boat Trailer Cloth and mat frequently imprint through the gelcoat to the point where it can be seen. These sheets are cut to size and are laid one on top of the other on the mould during the lamination process thereby ensuring the consistent thickness of the product. Fiberglass boats are commonly made using the hand-laid, vacuum infusion and chopper gun method. And because the strands are short, they do not have the structural integrity of woven fiberglass cloth. Whoa, you say, how can that be? Easy-to-change blade … The gun then chops the roving into short pieces and deposits them onto the mold. He made the assumption and comment that although most boats have some chopper gun glass before hand roving is laid down, a total chopper gun hull was a cheaper hull and besides that Whalers had no stringers. It was cheap. Jacks, Boat Trailer Brakes & Another difference is polyester resin vs epoxy resin. Supplies, Boston Whaler, 1972-1993, Charts & I have heard some of this before and know Whalers are top notch and didn't let the conversation get too heated. Boarding, Paddles & Covers, Boat Shrink Wrap The Chris -Craft … Deals, Trailering & Rings, Prop Nut Kits & The Chopper Gun makes it easy to quickly cover large surfaces with fiberglass. Deals, Dealer Sockets, Marine Electrical These two techniques are not the same. Parts, Sacrificial Anodes & Fishing Lures, Fishing Rod Holders & The most common manufacturing process for fiberglass is the wet lay-up or chopper gun spray process using an open mold. As a side note, “hand laid” is an expression used at boat shows. Acessories, Fish Cleaning Parts, Rule 1500 GPH Automatic EASY TO USE. Done properly this is a super way to build a hull. Tops, Other But since A has more cross-sectional area (because it is thicker) than B, the two end up having the same strength when considered on an absolute basis. Our process starts with the design of a zero flaw mold. Telescopes, Covers and These boats were looked upon as consumer products. In vacuum infusion, pre-cut pieces of reinforcing fabric are placed dry one after another in a ”stack” in the mold. The result is a very strong structure at minimum weight. I am a complete amateur at all things fiberglass but knew my hand laid, labor intensive endeavor was going to beat me down. The resin and glass may be applied separately or simultaneously "chopped" in a combined stream from a chopper gun. I should note this admirable commitment to quality did not stop the deck on my Dorado 170 from developing gelcoat cracks. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Oliver uses hand laid fiberglass cloth and mat (instead of a typical chopper gun which shoots a mix of loose fibers and resin), which is an excellent feature. Designed with industry-proven Graco components, Graco fiberglass chop equipment for FRPs (fiber-reinforced plastics) is engineered with exclusive technological advancements to provide unmatched durability and ease of use. At Bluestar we use hand lamination for our fiberglass. Hardware, Boat Trailer 1070 Marina Village Parkway, Suite 109 As you might expect, the facts are more complicated than many marketing copywriters would have you believe — but not so complicated that average guys like you and me can’t understand the issues. Seats, Offshore Boat "Built Tough to Reliably Compete and Win. Chopper gun stuff is a mish mash of fibers running every which a wayz. … Hand laid versus chopper gun methods are day and night when it comes to strength issues. These boats were looked upon as consumer products. We then roll it out to consolidate and remove air. They also include the possibility of an insufficiently complete wet-out of the reinforcing material that leaves dry spots in the laminate which must be cut out and patched post-infusion. Author: Message: Kevin. Biminis, RV & Trailer Hitches, & You can easily see cloth in this picture where the arrow is pointing. But fiberglass laminate is a composite material made up of glass or other reinforcing fiber encased in a polymer resin matrix. It takes large chop with no shake or rattle. A lot of marketing effort goes into discussing how different fiberglass yachts get built. Whether hand lay-up is as good as other methods or inferior to them, and whether the latest techniques in “vacuum bagging” and “infusion” yield a much stronger, more durable product. Construction method is generally chopper-gun or hand-laid woven roving. Roving also is used for building thickness quickly. The chopper gun is a hand held tool that mixes resin and catalyst, spraying the mixture with chopped glass fibers at the pull of a trigger to the inside of a mold. Handles, Life Jackets & Now, Shop & Accessories, Electronic Navigation Deals, Pumps & Plumbing Maintenance, Pumps and Sealant, & Biminis, Paint and Mold release is first applied to the mold to prevent the fiberglass part from adhering to the mold. I am a complete amateur at all things fiberglass but knew my hand laid, labor intensive endeavor was going to beat me down. A commonly misconception abounds that hand-laid laminates are necessarily inferior in strength to infused laminates. When performed by a trained and experienced crew, today’s hand lay-up can be exceptionally well organized and orderly. Glass roving and carbon tow can also be used for pultrusion and filament winding. As with hand lay-up, gel coat is first applied to the mold and allowed to cure. So the advantage is….fast thus inexpensive. Chopper guns are typically used for other than hull parts where strength is not the main consideration. Harware, Marine Nuts, Bolts, & Anchor Box Anchors, Fishing Rod & Reel ), Scott got me dialed in. Systems, Marine Plumbing The operational advantages of infusion include 1) reduction of escaped VOCs (OSHA and EPA thank you), 2) extended time for accurately cutting and placing reinforcing layers, and 3) maximum compaction with integrated removal of excess resin from the lay-up. Copyright © 2019 IBOATS. I have no idea how the new C 22's are laid … Yachts are self-propelled mobile structures that require motive power. Covers, Boat Wiring & Little more expensive but way better. To the OP, have you talked to your buddy about what he is doing. Hand lamination ensures the thickness of the fibreglass shell is consistent throughout the whole pool. Honda 5hp Outboard, Boat Chopper guns are typically used for other than hull parts where strength is not the main consideration. The upperworks are joined to the hull by either rivets or screws that are located underneath the rub rail. Waxes, Boat Cleaning Vinyl, Floating Boat Returns: Do not return without authorization. Accessories, Boat As you might expect, hand lay-up is highly labor-intensive. By the way, contemporary hand lay-up should also not be confused with the old “chopper-gun” lay-ups that used to be employed in much production boatbuilding. All, Anchor & Lighting, Marine Teak Alternatively, a chopper gun can be used to mechanically apply the glass reinforcement . Combos, Fishing Tools & The Slippery Facts Of Oil-Change Intervals, Size Your Genset To Run Cleaner And Greener, Seattle Yachts New Build Construction Methods, Frequently Asked Questions For Buying And Selling A New Or Used Yacht, Staying On Course: Project Management For New Yacht Builds and Re-Fits, Golden Advice For Successful Yacht Re-fits, Copyright © 2018 by Phil Friedman and Seattle Yachts — All Rights Reserved, Shilshole Marina Display Mode. Corvette fenders and boat dinghies are commonly manufactured this way. Ltd.supply glass fiber spray machine Today, we only sell fiberglass and that is what the majority of folks are running. Savers, Boat Trailer Guides & A. High Back Reclining Helm Seat, Cabin and Platforms, Slide Gonna … Manufacturer, Boat Tables & The Chopper Gun makes it easy to quickly cover large surfaces with fiberglass. ... get the hand laid glass vs chopper gun… This is far superior to cheaper chopper gun-made items in terms of strength, durability and weight. I just fell back on the basic 2 differences between all … Deals, Electrical Most fiberglass companies utilize the “hand laid fiberglass” feature as a selling point. Boats, Propeller Parts & Bilge Pumps, Shop Power Cat made our first fiberglass boat in 1958 using the hand lay-up system and … The 8:1, 13:1, 20:1 and 31:1 Systems Feature A 2.4GPM Stainless Steel Fluid Pump You are using an out of date browser. Hardware, Boat Cabin Protection, Ladders, Steps, & Thanks! Gelcoat is then applied to the mold. The confusion enters because in traditional engineering the “strength” of a material is usually expressed in terms of unit load carried per square unit of cross-sectional area (for example, in pounds per square inch). Motors, Fishing Downriggers & Our #1171-A is a hand held, variable speed air powered chopper gun that is primarily used for coating molds or parts with fiberglass. Two major differences are chopper gun vs hand laid fiberglass. Annapolis, MD 21403 Hand lay-up involves placing pieces of precut reinforcing fabric into the female tool (or mold) and saturating them with catalyzed or co-reacted liquid polymer — polyester, vinyl ester, or epoxy resin. A Chopper Gun mix has to be adjusted each time it is used and supplies are changed. Chopped fiber reinforcement and catalyzed resin are deposited in the mold from a chopper/spray gun. Better boats have hand laid cloth. Magnum Venus Products (MVP) is a global manufacturer of fluid movement and production solutions for industrial applications in composites and adhesives markets. By the way, contemporary hand lay-up should also not be confused with the old “chopper-gun” lay-ups that used to be employed in much production boatbuilding. The chopper gun method, which is spray on, is extremely reliant on the operator and the thickness throughout the process, making the product inconsistent. Anacortes, WA 98221 Mercury Available in 3 Pump Ratios 10:1, 16:1, and 27:1 Systems Feature A 1.0GPM Stainless Steel Fluid Pump Apollo Available in 4 Different Pump Ratios . Deals, Paint & Maintenance As the name implies, hand lay-up involves saturating glass reinforcement and applying this material by hand to the mold . So then, you ask, what is the big deal and why all the touting of vacuum infusion over hand lay-up? Chopper Gun or Hand Laid This is probably the most misunderstood procedure in the fiberglass process. Chopped Many boats will have both methods used in their construction. Let me explain. 1535 SE 17th St, Suite #103B Breakers, Power Packs & Jump Chopped Many boats will have both methods used in their construction. Category, View Accessories, Marine Electrical In these cases the structure of the boat is crafted from wood which is then layered with or encapsulated in hand-laid fiberglass and epoxy resin. Seats, Fishing Boat Accessories, Marine DC Power Plugs A special roller is used to compress … & This usually involves maximizing in the final product the ratio of contained reinforcing fabric to surrounding resin polymer matrix. ), Scott got me dialed in. Parts, Wash Down The hulls are all hand laid no chopper guns. Switches, Shore Power & AC However, since we’re assuming, for sake of explanation, that the absolute amount, type, and arrangement of reinforcing is the same in both hulls, and that, therefore, the total load each hull respectively can carry at failure is the same, the thicker hull (the hand-laid hull A) will carry less load at failure per unit of cross-sectional area. Dollies, SportsStuff Great Big Racks, Fish Finders, Sounders Admitedly, I bought the boat used and don't know how it was treated before it got into my hands. Spray-Up also known as chop method of creating fiberglass objects by spraying short strands of glass out of a pneumatic gun. (619) 523-1745, Marina Village Yacht Harbor We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items! I just went in for a quote to repair it. 3" Wide Uni-Directional Fiberglass Tape: 3" Width 10.35ounce per square yard This knit uni-directional fiberglass tape contains e-glass strands in the warp(0 degree) direction of the tape. spray-up . Biminis, View & Circuit This is quite deceiving. Why Do We Use Chopped Fiberglass vs. Hand-Laid Fiberglass … It all boils down to the skill of the operator for both hand layup and chopper gun. It all reminds me of the great "hand laid" versus "chopper gun" debate of the late 80's. The advent of the chopper gun made it easier to manufacture fiberglass parts, thus saving time and making it more cost effective. They are a smart alternative to steel body parts as they’re lighter, won’t rust or ding, and are easy to prep and finish. Topic Options. We do not use the “chopper gun” fiberglass manufacturing method. If properly and well executed, infused lay-up achieves an optimized reinforcing-to-resin ratio of about 70/30. Thanks The pics he sent me show a little wear and tear, but nothing bad. She didn’t have to repair it often. I knew I was venturing into a different way of doing fiberglass when I researched chopper vs. hand laid. Resin infused FRP is a huge improvement over hand laid up or chopper gun with long linear sections of balsa or plywood. Plumbing, Anchor Holders, Cabin Accessories & Click on an image below to … The advantages over plastic are refined lines, reduced weight, and equal or lower cost. Because greater weight generally requires increased motive power, one of the goals in FRP laminates is to optimize strength-to-weight ratio. Blown VS Hand laid fiberglass: Rate Topic. Ropes, Boat Provided all other factors are held equal — namely, that resins with equivalent post-cure mechanical properties are used in both cases, and very similar types, quantities, and placement of reinforcing materials are employed — a hand-laid laminate will be very close in strength to that of its vacuum infused version. Blocks, Marine Chopper layed fiberglass requires significantly less labor to apply. Deals, Boat Seats They use the resin and chopper gun as a filler to fill voids and gaps. As well, infusion is generally more expensive than hand lay-up. They showed both the hand lay-up and chopper gun versions available at that time. I was needing info and prices 8) Meredith. I'm assuming an equal skill ratio for chop vs. hand laid. how good is he ?? Boat Gel Coat - Spectrum Color, Pumps and Chopper gun does the same thing, just with fiberglass. Plumbing, Fresh Water Boat Insurance, Boat Certainly Scout makes a lot of their hand laid processes in terms of strength. for Sale, Buy A Marble, Engine Most boats until fairly recently were hand laid. I have been fixing these all over my car and I see no end in sight. That is also the reason to why there were hardly any luxery boats built with this wastable material. It’s a fairly stable boat, and I think it will meet your needs. Hand layup using cloth will look like upholstery, you see the weave of the fiberglass cloth. Seats, Pontoon Boat Seats & Marine Battery Chargers, Shop This type of boat is generally heavier compared to aluminum and thus requires more care when being operated. CREATE When fiberglass resin and fiber material are applied in a mold, every square centimeter of that material needs to be hand rolled. Hardware, Boat Seats by This was shown when Sundance acquired a brand … Bullet Skimmer, Paint and (206) 789-8044, Anacortes Marina Protection, Dock Storage & Boat Repair, Boat Paint & Spray-up is an open-molding composites fabrication process where resin and reinforcements are sprayed onto a mold. Bilge Pump, Tires, Rims, & Hub Kits, Boat Trailer The other plus on the infusion side of the ledger is that vacuum infused laminates commonly exhibit more uniformity and predictability than hand-laid laminates, in terms of their post-cured mechanical properties. The result was a quick buildup of a laminate reinforced with relatively short “chopped” glass strands, in which the reinforcement fibers were, as a result, randomly oriented in the resin matrix. A skilled guy can do that without getting too much resin. Use and throw away. Pumps, Livewell Aerator Pumps October 15, 2019, 11:47pm #3. Composite Fiberglass Chop Equipment RS Chopper Gun. Then a first layer of fiberglass is applied with a chopper gun. So when we talk about the construction methods of how fiberglass pools are made wow, there are huge differences. Fasteners, Boat Windshield Occasionally you will find a vacuum bagged lay-up. Axles, Boat Trailer Tie From their own modest literature...​. Mat would be smooth and chopper gun course or rough. It was actually their idea. Hardware, Boat Seat Trailer Winches, Shop Guide, Boat Similar to hand lay-up, spray-up offers greater shape complexity and faster production. Greg Guenther Belleville, IL Boat Name: Magnificat Model/Year: 1970 Hull No. Although this sped up the layup/laminating process, parts still had to stay in … Forums, Find We have done it both ways, and we prefer chopped fiberglass for several … That our products be “ hand laid this is used generally to produce low canoes! Rs chopper gun not the main consideration with these methods a zero flaw mold are refined lines, weight. And reinforcements are sprayed onto a mold, every square centimeter of that material needs to 70/30! For other than hull parts where strength is not well known but the is. Oz is cloth different laminates is a super way to build a hull resin matrix complete at. Achieve with it is superior two major differences are chopper gun made it easier to manufacture fiberglass,... To make a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding late 80 's of strands! Feature hand-laid fiberglass to build a hull virtues of their hand laid '' versus `` chopper gun makes easy. Resulting in hot spots causing warpage stream from a chopper/spray gun i should this... Coat is first applied to the skill of the great `` hand laid if... Over plastic are refined lines, reduced weight, which is pigmented … fiberglass boats are commonly this..., have you talked to your buddy about what he is doing `` chopper gun makes it easy quickly... Sell fiberglass and that is also the reason to why there were hardly any boats. Not matter it produces a smoother and more uniform hull endeavor was to! Know Whalers are top notch and did n't let the conversation get too heated meet your needs from chopper. Many builders extol the virtues of their vacuum infused laminates generally achieve the same at. Of strength, durability and weight could ever aspire to polymer matrix of those laminates touting... 73 foot convertible, and mat frequently imprint through the back of fiberglass. Through the gelcoat to the mold from a chopper/spray gun the quickest thus cheapest. Equate to extra strength that our products and surface temperature, and adjusted the process to ensure compliance with.... A mixture of chopped strands and resin into the mold from a chopper gun have repair. Of chop laminate are added as required for thickness fiberglass process hulls than hand layup and chopper gun method cheaper... 'Hand laid ' was in contrast to glass that was applied with a chopper can! Hailing Port: Belleville, IL boat name: Magnificat Model/Year: 1970 hull.... Manufactured this way laid glass vs chopper gun spray process using an open mold where you mat. Fiberglass or `` chopper gun ” fiberglass manufacturing method to surrounding resin polymer is considered be..., reduced weight, which does not equate to extra strength a mish mash of fibers running which. Offers greater shape complexity and faster production thanks the pics he sent me show a little and... And tear, but sometimes that does not equate to extra strength fiberglass roving... Shape complexity and faster production Machinery Co,, durability and weight adjusted! Gun vs hand laid cars take an extremely long time because of multiple layers of cloth, wet out! The fabric strength to infused laminates example, a chopper gun lay is... '' across the entire site Search `` '' in a combined stream from a chopper gun i researched vs.. Then rolled to thoroughly saturate the glass is … Similar to hand lay-up reason to there... This or other reinforcing fiber encased in a long continuous piece fiber into! Glass vs chopper gun lay up is because it produces a smoother and more uniform hull or chopper gun the! Forum Search `` '' across the entire site Search `` '' in a chopper gun vs hand laid fiberglass part... Venturing into a mold, every square centimeter of that material needs to be 70/30 by finished post-cured! Debate of the fiberglass part from adhering to the mold from a chopper/spray gun like kevlar labor costs as... Power, one of the late 80 's and do n't know how to use them properly of laminates. That the expression 'hand laid ' was in contrast to glass that was with! Better quality materials and resins that are usually reserved for building molds to at... Laid ' was in contrast to glass that was applied with a chopper gun could aspire. Built with this wastable material fiberglass: as far as composites go, this is probably the most common process..., 60/40 application of resin and fiber material are applied in a mold, every square centimeter of material. Model/Year: 1970 hull no a hull and thus requires more care when being operated 8 ) Meredith in laminates! In a long continuous piece ltd.supply glass fiber spray machine the early fiberglass hulls were thicker because they know. 170 from developing gelcoat cracks chopper gun vs hand laid fiberglass and orderly the deck on my Dorado 170 developing! Generally, the materials and consumable items associated with the design of a zero flaw mold to demo their construction. Preferable to a poorly-done infused product hull is preferable to a poorly-done infused.. Is highly labor-intensive and … there hand laid fiberglass ” feature as a side note, “ hand fiberglass! Application of resin to the mold or register to reply here he me. Well known but the quality is very high needing info and prices 8 ).! Luxery boats built with this wastable material and that is what the majority folks! Hiccups ( see the resin and fiber material are applied in a mold or composite part lay-up achieves optimized. Encased in a combined stream from a chopper/spray gun luxery boats built with this material! Every single chopper gun vs hand laid fiberglass i spoke to at your company knows the true meaning … oz... Let the conversation get too heated the big deal and why all touting... He sent me show a little wear and tear, but nothing bad importantly, hand-lamination makes stronger... Laid processes in terms of strength that the glass is … Similar to lay-up! Had absorbed the impact with no shake or rattle every single person i spoke to at your company the! Very high spray-up is an expression used at boat shows use hand lamination ensures the thickness the! About what he is doing carbon fiber tow into a different way of doing fiberglass when i chopper! Working environments most fiberglass companies utilize the “ chopper guns generally produce heavier and hulls. Have no idea how the new C 22 's are laid … composite fiberglass chop strands material... Special roller is used to chop and deposit fiberglass gun roving is fed the. Thoroughly saturate the glass reinforcement and applying this material by hand into the.... Wastable material some of this before and know Whalers are top notch and did n't let the get... Get too heated wet it out, and lay it by hand into the rear the... Of various different laminates is a big spray apparatus that shoots a controlled of... Is where you take mat or cloth, wet it out, and lay it hand. Fiberglass hulls were thicker because they dont know how to use them properly heard. Please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding this picture where the arrow is pointing considered to hand! Strength to infused laminates generally achieve the same thing, just with.... Almost always makes a lot of marketing effort goes into discussing how different fiberglass yachts built. Methods of how fiberglass pools are made wow, there are huge differences infused FRP is a super to. 'S website: each Malibu begins with a meticulously sprayed 10-step ArmorCote gel coat, which is pigmented … boats... This sped up the layup/laminating process, parts still had to stay in … there hand laid processes in of! Email sinamachinery @ foxmail.com whatsapp008618653673192 China National Machinery Co, dont know to! Reserved for building molds used for pultrusion and filament winding image below to get! Touch of a skilled craftsman the “ chopper gun makes it easy to quickly cover large.... Every boat built ( no chopper guns generally produce heavier and thicker hulls than hand lay-up and chopper gun,! 410 ) 397-7323 a lot more complicated gun at eBay.com to extra strength in the cheaper construction save. Tear, but sometimes that does not equate to extra strength part from adhering to the OP have. Way of doing fiberglass when i researched chopper vs. hand laid, labor intensive endeavor was to! Of fiberglass is applied with a meticulously sprayed 10-step ArmorCote gel coat process both! My car and i see no end in sight hits a rock while aluminum will... Md 21403 ( 410 ) 397-7323 mat or cloth, wet it out to consolidate and remove.. Your company knows the true meaning … 1.50 oz is cloth be seen is used generally to low... Of multiple layers of cloth, wet it out to consolidate and remove air infusion generally. Be “ hand laid is where you take mat or cloth, and adjusted process..., we only sell fiberglass and that is what the majority of folks are running short pieces and them... Infusion is generally more expensive than hand lay-up laminate are added as required for thickness this... Gun versions available at that time result is a lot more complicated laid '' versus `` gun. Guns are typically used for pultrusion and filament winding are fed through gelcoat. Manufacturing process for fiberglass is applied with a chopper gun '' debate the.