Or half the stuff from nonsense like DBS with certain characters being able to fight on par with characters they have no business being as strong as. Goku was probably trying to push the bomb but didn't have enough strength to overpower Buu until he was healed. Share the best GIFs now >>> Kid Buu fires many Ki Blasts, each one larger than the previous, at Goku, who tries to dodge the… This is the correct list (except you're missing Buuccolo between Buff Buu and Super Buu). SS3 Goku (buu saga) vs Super Buu Dragon Ball - General This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards. I don't know how hard this is to get. © 2020 GAMESPOT, A RED VENTURES COMPANY. Dude, you are the one using head canon based on nothing but statements based on assumptions of characters that are dis-proven by feats. Being unable to bring himself to kill Vegeta, Goku is not able to carry it through. If you don't agree with statements when they seem credible like I do, obviously this is kinda pointless lol. In the end, the good Majin Buu shoots out the Transfiguration Beam, and the Evil Buu blows it back towards him, turning the good Majin Buu into a piece of chocolate. You're dismissing statements from credible sources with no definite contradiction just because you don't like them. Goku is stated to not be able to defeat Kid Buu even at full power in the Daizenshuu and in the manga he specifically says he has to go all out to even have a chance though, and Toriyama even goes on record to affirm that at that point in DBZ, Kid Buu was the strongest on scene. Afterwards, he wants a good challenge and remembers being promised that h… However, he notices Vegeta lying on the ground after being injured trying to distract Kid Buu. Anyone who says kid buu is stronger doesn't know how to pay attention to shows. I think there was a scene in the dub where Supreme Kai or Old Kai were making a big deal out of not underestimating Kid Buu because of his size. And earlier he was mocking and laughing at Super Buu with Piccolo absorbed and even powered down to Base in front of him like yeah my son can one shot you now. And yeah, it's why I'm saying that genki is showcased to be stronger than it's source. EDIT: Apparently the show seems to imply that super buu is stronger than kid buu… Boomstick: And Kid Buu, Ultimate Pink Terror. Goku is not stupid. All I am doing is putting out feats that actually happen, Kid Buu factually couldn't manhandle Goku the same way he did to Vegeta and Fat Buu, Literally just going by feats and not pointless statements, You tried to pull out every trick in the bag including "bullets hurting Buu" lol, Your original premise was Kid Buu > Buuhan, At best, your flawed logic would get him above Gohan, And if Buu hand is relative to Gohan, he would obviously resist it. The bomb has empowerment capabilities aswell. Doesn't contradict the several statements including one from Toriyama himself saying that Kid Buu was the strongest on stage at that point in DBZ. Dragon Ball houses a lot of these characters. Goku was probably trying to push the bomb but didn't have enough strength to overpower Buu until he was healed. Buuhan is vastly superior to Buutenks. @wushu59: I never argued that Kid Buu has better feats ever, but that by everything including in verse statements that I see no definitive reason to dismiss, he should be stronger. It is Super Buu. What does Goku trying to push the bomb have anything to do with how much energy it had? I can accept Kid Buu>Base Super Buu but there's no way Buuhan is weaker than Kid Buu.My view on the matter too IIRC Goku said he could've killed Kid Buu but he let the fight drag on because he wanted to give Vegeta a chance to fight. but that by everything including in verse statements that I see no definitive reason to dismiss, Feats prove Kid Buu to be relative to Goku, If Zenkai, at best Goku could have surpassed Based Super Buu which is a massive leap on it's own, Either Buutenks or Buuhan would decimate Goku no difficulty. When did I switch the subject here? Feats do show that Goku was able to slightly keep up with a Kid Buu that for most of the fight was laughing, dancing, and goofing off agreed, and then Toriyama later affirms that Kid Buu was stronger. It doesn't. thats means Gotenks needs his SSJ1 to 3 to actually beat Kid Buu , the fusion is a really masive power up , both kids are SSJ1 power and after the fusion they reach beyond adults SSJ2 power JUST in his base form , but this is still insufficient to Kid Buu , you need a normal SSJ3 power to equal Kid Buu … Manga makes it clear and anime really only has some statements that could be argued to show otherwise but even then with the way things play out Super Buu still is the strongest. That's all the evidence you really need. A lot of it has to do with it being said Kid Buu is more dangerous than Super Buu. The fact that you have to switch the subject and gloss over many of the points I make is prove of that. As for genki dama argument, genki only makes 1/3 of ki so even if Gohan gave out everything (doubtful) that would only be 1/3 of his power (assuming every part of ki is equal to 1/3 that is, for all we know they vary in quantity). There is Zero Evidence that Kid Buu's ki fell after Goku and Vegeta noted that it was rising. Still misinterpreting what I meant? Dub and I think it's assumed that the final baddie is the strongest guy. A lot of people say Kid Buu is the strongest Buu period. R1: Base janemba probably loses because buu does actually talk and may at some point insult him. I really don't understand the logic behind this Kid Buu wank. Good Buu (Mr. Buu). He knows his limits and knows when to engage. Well, some people claim hard fought battles in general give Saiyans Zenkai when they are forced to adapt. Me arguing that Kid Buu>> the characters you claim him to be inferior to in order to say he isn't the strongest Buu? By logic of ki = life force (For Example, Tien dying in Saiyan Saga from using all of his energy for Tri-Beam), Then Gohan would be giving a fraction of his energy. You know how DBZ works. (Because giving all it, means death). Xeno Goku faces off against Xeno Majin Buu having now merged with the Three-Star Dark Dragon Ball in battle. I can at least understand why people debate Kid vs Super, but Kid vs Buuhan or Buutenks? And correct, but unlike you I don't dismiss credible canon statements and lore by using my own subjective interpretation of a single fight and call it a feat to contrive a contradiction that doesn't provably exist. Now Kid Buu is basically in control of his body again, but the GSK stil causes him to have a soft spot for Hercule and Bee. Although another interesting to note though is that Kibito stated that Buu went as far as lowering his power through his absorption(s), and although this could be referring to Fat Buu whom is inferior to Kid Buu, Kid Buu actually absorbed South Kai and become Buff Buu first IIRC, so this is pretty ambiguous. Just be mad we have had to answer this fucking question a million times. but didn't vegeta only say that cuz he looked like a kid. Our Mr. Buu is … Or characters with immense strength and capabilities. This would make sense because Goku almost always has to charge the bomb while in base and he seems to get stronger and more durable while he's charging it. Well that's dumb and doesn't make sense. yet he can stomp Super Buu up to his piccolo absorbed form, HMM. He still did something as reckless as immediately powering down to Base right in his face. I also thought the same way, it's a common misconception. Goku’s true desire is to fight one on one yet he was scared to even engage with Super Buu. At most, above base Super Buu. https://i.gyazo.com/db7810fe0080a6e47dd59bc359c35f5c.png, It's on the fence with Buuhan but saying Super Buu>Kid Buu is ridiculous when Goku literally laughs and says Gohan could stomp Buu with Piccolo absorbed by himself, yet all the energy from the same Gohan in the SB wasn't enough to defeat Kis Buu, https://comicvine.gamespot.com/api/image/scale_super/7683936-2243053054-77ee0.png, Sorry if the links are an inconvenience images stopped uploading properly for me lol, Gohan factually can't solo Kid Buu according to himself (and he says this after sensing the tremendous clash of Ki between Goku and Buu, could've been referring to the SB but probably not and referred to the struggle of them trying to overpower the other since he says clash and the SB is one singular concentration of Ki; https://i.gyazo.com/08e48f4515f2da43977e45b53cd25476.png). SSJ3 Goku could have won against Kid Buu or Fat Buu.. And there is also the fact that Kid Buu could no dif Fat Buu who was previously around Goku level. Kid Buu wasn’t the one that absorbed the Dai Kaioshin it was Buff Buu and Fat Buu was the result. "hE diDnT giVe eVeRyThInG" "dOubTfUL" you guys have nothing to support this but denial and incredulity and multiple instances suggest otherwise. Kid Buu's demeanor throughout the fight laughing at and mocking Goku for half the time makes me question if he was fighting at full power too. If you scale DB solely on your own interpretation of feats such as the fight apparently implying Kid Buu=Goku yet ignore how the former is blatantly superior by canon statements even from the fighters and even per Toriyama himself because it's against what you want to believe, we should probably stop arguing since we'll never come to an agreement. The feats literally show Goku to be relative to Kid Buu, Even if you want to argue Kid Buu is slightly stronger then Goku, that still wouldn't be remotely close to Buutenks. Plot convenience is still completely canon, this isn't so drastic to the point it can be considered PIS like Goku being scratched by a bullet despite tanking them without a scratch as a pre teen or Vegeta suffocating in space to a planet explosion in RoF despite knowing about and using barriers to survive them in canon DB Kai flashbacks, which can actually be dismissed imo unlike Kid Buu's showcased superiority to Gohan. Him being afraid to engage Super Buu is later is something that can't be debunked though I'm well aware, it's one of the biggest inconsistencies in DB and it's up to you which you wanna believe is more consistent in a anime that has some of the worst writing ever. Now, Super Buu is the same as Fat Buu, but without the GSK's effects making him innocent and restraining his power. But then Vegeta admits he's actually wrecked and has no more energy, and Goku needed to be at top physical form in SSJ3 to kill Buu, which he was no longer because he messed around. Pure Evil Boo and Innocent Boo are weaker than Pure Boo too, not just Mr. Boo, Kid Buu is the weakest from all of them if we take out the half parts (good Buu and evil Buu ). ... Absolute bare minimum Kid Buu>Super Buu with piccolo absorbed. Kid buu wins From strongest to weakest it goes exactly like this: Kid Buu (weaker by a slight margin) = Pure Evil Buu. Super Buu = Fat Buu (ENRAGED) Fat Buu. Goku at first gathers the energy from the Z fighters and everyone at Kami's lookout, and says it's not enough and won't be able to defeat Buu with this alone. SSJ3 Goku couldn't use his full power against Fat Buu which is why he was struggling with him for a bit. It was plot. At most, Kid Buu & EOS Goku could above Base Super Buu Which wouldn't contradict statements, as Base Super Buu is a more natural form then Buutenks and Buuhan are 27 days ago I feel so dumb seeing these comments now. I'll get back to you on the rest later If I remember and if I don't it was a fun discussion nonetheless so thanks for that. Then Gohan would be giving a fraction of his energy. They were about equals. Goku can kill Kid Buu, who is stronger than Super Buu. Well that's dumb and doesn't make sense. I'm not saying Goku reached Buuhan level (maybe after the last zenkai in the series when Dende restores his energy, Buuhan is a dramatic leap over Buutenks who has a leap over Gohan who has a leap over Base Buu who was stronger then Goku. Fine with people disagreeing for Buuhan but saying Base Super buu is stronger is outright dishonesty. And correct, by pure feats Buuhan at the very least is superior, but unlike you I don't dismiss credible canon statements and lore by using my own subjective interpretation of a single fight and call it a feat to contrive a contradiction that doesn't provably exist. Confused about what you mean by the third statement. When Majin Buu expelled his evil and became the pure-hearted Good Buu, he tried utilizing it to finish Evil Buu, but it failed and backfired causing Good Buu's downfall and the result of Super Buu. With Tenor, maker of GIF Keyboard, add popular Super Buu animated GIFs to your conversations. Kid Buu (weaker by a slight margin) = Pure Evil Buu. (Because giving all of it, means death). Vegeta survived it, Furiza survived it, and they had Kid Buu push it back because they wanted to create suspense and despair. Gohan and the 7 fighters giving all of their energy after Goku requested that, yeah. Billions of people + plants add up obviously. Except Goku isn't weaker then Kid Buu. Super Buu, Goku was scared to fight him without fusion while he was confident to fight Kid Buu 1 on 1. I'm the one using headcanon yet you've already claimed something that goes against the entire context of the scene twice "Gohan only gave a fraction" despite providing 0 credible reasons or posting something that would suggest so other than genki=/=ki even though genki is still showcased to be stronger and Goku explicitly asks for all the energy he can, hm. Base GT Goku for instance tanked hits from OS while he was charging the bomb. Because Goku is a lot stronger than those two. When did I switch the subject here? DBS even added in stuff like how he was a mindless idiot who had hella god powers and couldn't utilize it, but I guess Buuhan should've logically had those too. It was almost implying that he had lost size but gained power. I've been arguing about and using stuff from DB Kai here so not really interested in anything about GT. It's fucking basic powerscaling. This would make way more sense than Kid Buu just being stronger than Mystic Gohan and everyone else combined lmao. And if Buu is relative to Gohan, he would obviously resist it, It doesn't matter what Goku "explicitly stated". And according to your own logic, it would be much more then my assumed estimate, Goku was already drained at that point and Gohan gave a fraction, And according to your own logic, it would be much more then my assumed estimate. Super Buu then brutally kills Smitty, the second deranged gunman, by turning into liquid and going down his throat, making him expand until he explodes. Boomstick: But what if we stick the two most powerful, and probably the 2 most ridiculous villains against one another, no Whis. Kid Buu wins, against current fit buu. Goku was weak from all the fighting + going SSJ3 for the first time as human (revived), but he could beat him if given proper time to rest or maybe a senzu bean, bruh i think it goes more like 1.buuhan 2.buutenks 3.buucolo 4.super buu 5.kid buu 6.fat buu 7.evil buu 8.good buu, the reason i would put kid buu above fat buu is because remember:old kai said he got weaker absorbing that kai,turninng into fat buu. Before I get to the technical stuff, let me just ask… Have you seen a single episode of Super? In the final battle against Kid Buu, Good Buu desperately tried to use the chocolate beam to defeat Kid Buu, but it was also unsuccessful. If Kid Buu is relative to Gohan then obviously a fraction wouldn't be enough. My friend, he mocked Super Buu because he knew he had a monster in his son right next to him. There is Zero evidence that Super Buu's ki ever rose above Fat Buu level. That's crazy, they both destroy him. Kid Buu had Super saiyan 3 beat he is probably super saiyan 4 level at best. Fused Buu > Kid Buu/Super Buu (edge goes to kid buu for being insane) > Fat Buu > Evil Buu > Good Buu. Current Buu hasn't shown any sign of improvement other than being a good person. The first thing that Super Buu did after he transformed (aside from cracking his neck and powering up) was to brutally kill the deranged gunman Smitty by going down his throat in liquid form and causing him to burst. Vegeta told the humans on earth that giving all their genki would be akin to the tiredness felt after going on a run. The answer is evident enough using the logic that Goku is using newer forms against Black when Super Buu was SSJ3 level. it wasn't due to how strong Buu is whatsoever; Complete headcanon to assume it is so this is kinda a pointless argument, being one of the 3 parts that make up something =/= being 1/3 of it and that's that. Ikr? While Kid Buu is a bit weaker than Super Buu, it still requires Goku going Super Saiyan 3 just to match. Goku has formed the Super Spirit Bomb and is ready to throw it. Super Buu is born. However, after absorbing the Grand Supreme Kai, he was transformed into a less evil force by the Kai's influence and was later seale… New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, A subreddit for all things Dragon Ball! The feat itself is what I've been disagreeing with and am saying it's is just a single fight which anyone can interpret in their own way since Kid Buu's attitude during the fight and factors like that are questionable too. Gonna try and get sleep I've been up for like 5 days straight lol. discord.gg/dbz, Press J to jump to the feed. Both Goku and Vegeta felt confident enough that SSJ3 Goku would be able to beat Kid Buu once he had revved up enough power. Our Mr. Buu is high SSJ2-tier at best, most other Buus are above Kid. Billions of sub-wall level humans and rock level plants doesn't even add up to planet level, let alone multi solar system or galaxy level. Quite honestly power levels confuse me because there are so many levels to transforming that it makes it hard to follow. And ignoring the points I've made about Buutenks and Buuhan. Kid Buu being superior to the spirit bomb containing the energy of all 4 of those is exactly what that seems to suggest. And Buutenks is vastly Superior to Base Super Buu. He asked to fight Son Goten and Trunks, and after trying to stall him (during which time Super Buu unleashed the Human Extinction Attac… Your original premise was Kid Buu being stronger then Buuhan, But you can't even prove he is even close to Buutenks level using feats, And all of your scans are also revolved around statements and not actual feats. Giving this to Super Buu, more raw power and somewhat sane compared to kid unga Bunga buy. The evil mage Bibidi knew how to summon and control him and eventually used him to slaughter most of the Supreme Kais. Lol Goku was literally laughing at how Buupiccolo couldn't defeat him and even powered down, but I guess later inside Buu it does seem to be contradicted, you take your pick for which you want to believe amidst DB's laughably terrible and inconsistent writing. Wiz: Gods. I'm the one using headcanon yet you've already claimed twice "Gohan only gave a fraction" despite providing 0 credible reasons or posting someone that would suggest so other than genki=/=ki even though genki is still showcased to be stronger and Goku explicitly asks for all the energy he can, hm. It's not really headcanon though. How does speculation about it being plot convenience for Goku dismiss the fact that Goku blatantly stated that the SB with Gohan's energy included wouldn't be enough to take Buu out, or him wanting Gohan and Gotenks to fight Kid Buu together with them, or Gohan stating he'd merely go support them? Replying to you since unlike the typical DB fans above you actually made an argument with some reasoning instead of making baseless claims, which I respect, but lol trying to use the but he was wanted to use Fusion argument is wrong. and he overpowers Buu as SS1 and then Daizenshuu states Goku as the strongest but that's kinda irrelevant here), but I don't think he has to be to fight with a Kid Buu that's been goofing off. I know genki is a part of Ki which Toriyama did state, but I don't remember anything utilizing genki besides the Spirit Bomb and maybe Spirit fission in the last chapter of DBS. Wiz: And it's our job to analyze they're weapons, armor, and skills to determi… Headcanon and an argument from incredulity in one go, damn. Kid Buu and SSJ3 Goku are on the same level but Kid Buu has the advantage due to regen and stamina. The Spirit Bomb itself was much more powerful than Kid Buu but Goku was too weak to push it further to him. If he was so superior Goku should've been confident in him soloing like he was when against Buupiccolo, or Gohan when he fought Base Super Buu, yet it's not the case against Kid Buu at all. Even Goku was still wanting Gohan and Gotenks to fight with them together just against Kid Buu by himself. I never argued that Kid Buu has better feats ever. Withdrawing a sword he slices Xeno Majin Buu in half before turning his attention towards Xeno Goku who rushes in to attack hi… Still,besides the genkidama, kid boo never showed a sign of being hurt by their attacks. He's Wiz, and I'm Boomstick. Kid Buu is like the second weakest form of Buu we ever saw stronger than only Mr. Buu (the good buu thats still around in Super). Ultra Buu (Buff Buu) Buuccolo. Buuhan would causally one shot, blood lusted or not, There is no way you can justify Goku reaching that level through zenkai, Passing just regular Base Super Buu is a dramatic increase as is, And the feats do not show " Goku slightly keeping up Kid Buu", They were trading full contact blows back and forth regardless of Buu's demeanor, And it was until Goku's SS3 ran out of juice, Vegeta even had an entire monologue acknowledging Goku while they were fighting evenly. So basically Vegito is the strongest forme of all the Z fighters, and if Goku and Vegeta were to fuse again in Super, they would be stronger than Beerus, right? https://i.gyazo.com/8fb9d89b016b4995dded4d29ae7ec7ab.png. That's not what I was saying. Why didn’t Goku just finish him off right then and there? My original premise has been Kid Buu>>Buuhan by everything presented overall which includes canon credible statements about how strong he is which I've never gone back on, not by just feats alone which I've already agreed Buuhan is>. Goku needed a genki dama with all of the earths energy, then when buu started to overpower him, they needed to wish all his stamina back. And at least it's not headcanon that isn't supported by something in the manga, which is Goku demanding everyone to give all the energy they can and Gohan having no plausible reason to not do so while having every reason to help his dad to the fullest extent to beat Buu right there. You also have Gohan and of the other 7 fighters giving a fraction. Otherwise he would have attacked him and killed him. Goku was weaker then Base Super Buu R2: Janemba likely cannot kill any of these buus, but kid buu can't kill janemba either. If you agree that Kid Buu can't be proven to be above Buuhan using feats, then there is no argument then. Good Buu fights the Evil Buu. WHY DO PEOPLE STILL HAVE TROUBLE WITH THIS!? He wasn't near death in any of the situations I remember. I only brought up his feats such as the Spirit Bomb or Goku laughing at Buupiccolo despite taking him seriously because things like whether or not he's even superior to Gohan and Super Buu came into question, that's all. In other words, we can't use Buu Saga Gohan as a measure stick for this, since Buu Saga Gohan is in another league from Movie 13 Gohan, which means Base Hirudegarn is not stronger than Super Buu just because the former kicked Gohan's ass easily, since SSJ3 … Neither is likely to outright destroy the other since they won't be serious enough. Why did I watch this as a kid, thinking Kid Buu was his most powerful form? If Kid Buu wasn't showcased in two instances to be superior to Ultimate Gohan and the Spirit Bomb with all his energy I'd never even think about arguing Kid Buu>Super Buu, but that's what shown and several statements do support it with only one inconsistency. I guess this is up to interpretation on what it implied though, and I spent an entire page arguing against subjective interpretation of scenes so I'll drop that since it'd be hypocritical of me to use it here. Just like how they had Gohan in a beam battle with a weaker Cell. Buu's demeanor definitely matters alot in how hard he's fighting and how much power he's using. It's literally even specified they went out of their way to take everything rather than a bit more, what more do y'all need to have spelled out? It's your head canon that Gohan can give up every last drop of ki . For some reason,i always thought all the fusions kinda restrain boo from using all of his power,then when he went back to his original form, he was at his max power..... but it seems that no. Don't feel bad. Gotenks stronger than Goku in base and ssj, but weaker than him in ssj3 ? Wiz: Lord Beerus, God of Destruction. The fans pressured Toriyama to make Goku the hero again, so he had to write everyone out of the final battle and have Goku win. Not when you are clearly trading full contact punches, it isn't, Only after watching Goku fight evenly with Buu, At most you can say Kid Buu was slightly stronger, But that would still be much weaker then Buutenks, let alone Buuhan. Used ki for the Tri Beam though, not genki which is why he was scared to fight Kid or! To your conversations been taken care of pages ago so I do, obviously this is strongest! Improvement other than being a good challenge and remembers being promised that h… Kid Buu > Super Buu he... 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Information in the manga tells us that Super Buu 's ki ever rose above Fat Buu thought same... Of their energy after Goku and vegeta felt confident enough that SSJ3 Goku are on the ground after injured...