Just curious. I wouldn't think there would be enough difference between the 3 to worry about. .50 Beowulf, Hdy. of recoil in an eight pound field weight rifle. By comparison, recoil of the .450 Bushmaster and .50 Beowulf loads calculate as 19.5 ft. lbs. Remingtons coming out with 300 grain core loks that are exciting. These are not included here because the 180 grain load is the best comparison against heavier bullets in the .45 and .50 caliber cartridges; I use one popular bullet weight in those cartridges, as follows. The size difference between .223 Rem. Last edited by zardoz; 04-20-2018 at 02:07 AM. Not the .450 SOCOM. = 22.6; KPS at 185 yds. “…hunters desiring a big bore AR…have three mainstream choices: the .450 Bushmaster, the .458 SOCOM, and the .50 Beowulf. Page / 2 Next Page. Shorter range shots improve the likelihood of placing a bullet in the right place. The first number for each load is its MPBR yardage, the second is the far zero yardage associated with the MPBR. This leads to the issue of rifle platforms for the cartridge. For Class 2 game, a SD of .200 has long been considered about the minimum acceptable for medium range rifle cartridges. If you're planning to shoot it alot, go for the caliber that has the cheapest component bullets. hollow points. These loads should be fully Class 2 capable out to their MPBR distances. I have a 16" 450 and I shoot clover leafs all day at 100 with the hornady factory ammo and have dropped every whitetail where it stood. 180 grain PP: KPS at 100 yds. CURRENTLY SOLD OUT. Winchester has published some vague promotional material with numbers that suggest that the .350 Legend generates about 12 percent lower recoil than a .30-30. The KPS scores of the Beowulf and Bushmaster loads indicate that they are suitable for use against Class 3 game. Pistol Length Upper Assemblies 7.62x39; Rifle Length Upper Assemblies 7.62x39; AR 9 9mm PCC Upper Let’s look at the key differences: Power One of the biggest arguments for the .458 SOCOM is the ability to handle up to 600-grain. (The .458 SOCOM is not included in this comparison, because its case is not straight walled.). Winchester notes, "several other firearm manufacturers are gearing up" to produce rifles chambered in .350 Legend. Trajectory matters, because the flatter a bullet flies the easier it is to hit a target down range. The abiding problem with medium and large bore bullets is that they must be quite heavy to have high sectional densities. Some straight wall handgun cartridges are chambered in rifles, notably the .357 Magnum, .44 Remington Magnum, .460 and .500 S&W Magnums. Bushmaster and hornady teamed up for the 450 and 450 ammo is cheaper and easier to find. A longer, smaller diameter projectile penetrates better than a shorter, fatter projectile of the same weight and construction, which only makes sense. I have the .50 Beowulf and am very pleased with the accuracy and knock down power. Differences Between 450 Bushmaster And 458 Socom Power. Loads are listed in descending order of 100 yard KPS values. These three cartridges are birds of a feather, in that they are straight wall case designs, sized to function in AR-15 rifle platforms. Hornady BLACK 250 grain FTX - BC .210, .50 Beowulf load However, for those affected (or afflicted) by such regulations, practically any rifle cartridge is more useful than a shotgun slug." To illustrate, the 180 grain, .357" diameter bullet (SD .202) barely meets the minimum SD .200 rule of thumb; compare that with a 120 grain, .284" (7mm) diameter bullet, with a SD of .213. = 16.6. AR15.COM is the world’s largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - 458 socom vs 450 bushmaster vs 50 beowulf??? Evaluating recoil of the .350 Legend is shaky right now, because there is no body of reloading data that can be consulted to get load powder charges, a necessary variable in recoil calculations. for .357 inch, .452 inch, and .500 inch diameter bullets, respectively.). Magazine Follower 450 Bushmaster 458 SOCOM 50 Beowulf With 223 Adapter. The purpose of these comparisons was to make a thorough evaluation of how the .350 Legend stacks up in performance against two cartridges long proven to be effective and efficient at taking deer and similar game animals. The .450 Bushmaster and .458 SOCOM have a .473″ rim diameter, which is the same as other popular cartridges like the .30-06, .308, and .270 Winchester. The .450 Bushmaster is in the same class as a typical modern 45–70 load. This may not be a great concern on deer and similar sized thin skinned game, because these large diameter bullets are going to deliver a lot of shock energy to the target, even if they do not always penetrate well. 6.5 Creedmoor Upper; 6.5 Grendel Upper; 6.8 SPC Upper; 7.62x39 Upper. = 54.1; KPS at 175 yds. 458 Socom can tackle the 600-grain, while 450 Bushmaster can handle half of this number. That's just my preference, having looked at both the 450 Bushmaster and 50 Beowulf a lot before finally deciding on the SOCOM. Velocity flattens trajectory and makes hitting easier as the range increases. I, too, have lived and hunted only in areas where normal game hunting cartridges are legal, so I am also baffled by these regulations. (Generally, a KPS of 30 to 32 may be considered a threshold power level for hunting Class 3 game.) The killing power analysis, below, sheds more light on this. The 180 grain Legend load does not generate the killing power (KPS) of the larger, heavier loads, but the Legend generates much lower recoil and so will be easier for most of us to shoot accurately. = 40.0, .450 Bushmaster, Hdy. To summarize, the .350 Legend, 180 grain load, fits neatly between the Bushmaster and Beowulf loads in velocity, MPBR, and trajectory. Dittos for brass. .450 Bushmaster Vs .350 Legend Cost. Unfortunately, the traditional lever rifle designs, with rear-locking bolts, cannot handle the .350 Legend cartridge, for the simple reason that its MAP is 55,000 psi, well above what most rear-locking lever designs were meant handle. Ditto for AR15 platforms, whether complete rifles or uppers. 350 Legend vs 450 Bushmaster. When chambered for bigbore thumpers such as the .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM or .50 Beowulf, the AR-15 is as effective a dangerous game-stalking tool as any other rifle ever devised. = 16.6; The results are clear. I came up with a tentative recoil estimate that may or may not be accurate for the .350 Legend, 180 grain load, but it is the best I can do without verified powder charge data for the new cartridge. Unfortunately, many such systems have no correlation with reality at all. McAdams compares the 50 Beowulf, 450 Bushmaster, and 458 SOCOM in his article. The characteristics compared include velocity and energy, maximum point blank range and far zero, trajectory, sectional density, killing power and recoil. The most significant thing about these numbers is that trajectory of all loads deteriorates quickly at ranges beyond 200 yards, with bullet drop at 250 yards roughly three to four times that at 200 yards, for all loads. To me, the trajectory data indicate that taking hunting shots at ranges of 200 yards or more would be both irresponsible and futile with any of these loads. Here are the loads I will evaluate and compare. Note that this is a comparative system. 4,000 BC: the wheel. i don't have either but i do have a 458 socom. All three cartridges are solid performers and there is quite a bit of overlap in their capabilities. = 40.0.450 Bushmaster, Hdy. Rifle cartridges with straight wall cases within the length range specified are not an everyday commodity. If it's more of a novelty cool gun, well the bigger the better. 243 vs 308 vs 7mm-08: Which Is Right For You? Energy is a measure of the work a bullet can do, which in this case means powering bullet penetration and expansion. I am a firm believer in sighting-in hunting rifles and loads for maximum point blank range. I don't really have a specific use for the set up. This is why I preach the, "never take a shot beyond MPBR, and closer is always better" doctrine. I am looking at getting a new big bore upper for my AR15, either 450 bushmaster or 50 Beowulf. The advantage of 50beo is, half inch holes. Pistol Length Upper Assemblies 5.56/.223; Rifle Length Upper Assemblies 5.56/.223; 50 Beowulf Upper 12.7X42 50 Cal. The .450 Bushmaster can’t handle even half of that. A game animal hit somewhere other than in the vitals is not likely to go down cleanly, no matter the size, weight and impact energy of the bullet. In truth it probably doesn't matter which I pick either now that I think about it. 300 grain FTX: +2.8" (100), -3.1" (175), -20.1" (250), .50 Beowulf, Hdy. 5. … I found an article by Gary Zinn that makes a pretty good case why the 350 Legend is better for Whitetails and larger game than the 450 … Its mostly just something to mess with. Reason: spelling, and additional info 100,000 BC: stone tools. Presently, the .350 Legend, .450 Bushmaster, and .50 Beowulf are the only short (1.8 inches or shorter) commercial straight wall rifle cartridges, so are of prime interest to those who hunt in the jurisdictions noted above, plus anyone who may be interested in hunting with an AR-15 rifle chambered in a medium or large bore cartridge. Various systems have been created to estimate the killing power of rifle cartridges, with varying results in terms of accuracy. The VSO Gun Channel is an educational resource of VSO Media LLC, a research and development/ Testing Evaluation firm. The big question for me is whether a 260gr load going 1,850 fps from a 12" barrel and producing 5,500 psi at the muzzle is a problem for the Ti-Rant 45. The 16 inch barrel data are used here, along with .450 Bushmaster and .50 Beowulf data from 16-inch barrels, because 16 inches is the most prevalent barrel length for AR-15 rifles. The .45 and .50 caliber loads have SDs that fall short of the .200 benchmark. Given the looping trajectories, a self-imposed range limit of about 150 to 165 yards, depending on the cartridge/load combination, would be better. Paper test with the a few .308 rounds, 30-06, 450 bm and .50 beowulf against 2,700 sheets of paper #capcustoms #capstaycustom #crtacticaldefense Chuck then commented that, "I have lived in the far west my entire life, so please forgive me if I find such detailed and restrictive regulations not only incomprehensible, but a huge over-reach of bureaucratic authority. 250 grain FTX: KPS at 100 yds. in., and .1964 sq. AR-15 AK-47 Handgun Precision Rifles Armory Training Competitive Shooting General Outdoors Archery Hometown Industry. 45 RAPTOR Rifle Cartridge. Chuck Hawks started by giving an overview of the cartridge itself in The Winchester .350 Legend. That said having a caliber that has limited bullet selection and bullets that aren't easy to get locally can be a PITA. 250 grain FTX: +3.0" (100), -2.8" (190), -13.7" (250), .350 Legend, Win. 250 grain FTX: KPS at 100 yds. The 45 RAPTOR is designed to shoot bullets ranging from 160 grains up to 395 grains giving end users a wide range of projectile options to meet their specific requirements. 180 grain PP: KPS at 100 yds. All rights reserved. Killing power is the most difficult factor to estimate, as there is no definitive scientific formula to apply. I crumpled an Antelope into a pile of Jello at 200 yards with it last fall using the factory 334 gr. That being said. Something with power that I can hunt deer and pigs. The results are clear. 450 bushmaster is a saami spec round. Winchester quotes muzzle velocity (MV) values for its .350 Legend loads from both 16 inch and 20 inch rifle barrels. The 458 SOCOM was designed for a very specific purpose. The .50 Beowulf uses standard .500" HANDGUN bullets....50 caliber RIFLE bullets are .510"... "...the Beowulf is not limited to only handgun bullets." Producing bolt action rifles in .350 Legend should be a snap. lbs., respectively, in eight pound rifles. Only a handful of them are any good for hunting, but the medium caliber .350 Legend may be one that prospers, not only in restricted cartridge areas, but in general. This comparison only matters depending on which types of games you are focusing on. lbs.) Here are the 100, MPBR (nearest five yard increment) and 250 yard trajectory figures in inches, for each load, sighted-in for a +/- 3 inch MPBR, computed for a scope mounted 1.5 inches over the bore. We estimate a rifle cartridge should generate a KPS of at least 12.5 at the range the bullet impacts to be a viable hunting cartridge for common Class 2 game, up to roughly 150 - 175 pounds (e.g., deer and pronghorn), while a KPS of 15.0 gives a margin of killing power for larger Class 2 game (up to 300 pounds). Rubber meet road, because if there is anyone point in .450 Bushmaster vs .350 Legend battle where one wins out, it’s here. I won’t be shooting long range so shots are usually 50-75 yards avg. Thanks guys, I am going to grab the .450 Bushmaster upper. AR15 fanciers, long saddled with marginal deer cartridges, are likely to jump all over the cartridge. 270 vs 308: Which One Should You Hunt With? The Legend looks like a prayer answered for those who hunt in areas where rifles are restricted to short, straight-walled cartridges. For all the .450 Bushmaster’s assets, economic shooting isn’t one of them. Bullets from the three cartridges being evaluated, fired at a target within 200 yards, will go to ground by the time they fly 300 yards or less downrange. It is very popular among whitetail hunters and will be around longer than 458 or 50 will be. ARCHIVED; AR-15 » AR Variants. my reasoning is it can use the same bullets i keep here for the 45-70. the bushmaster uses 452 bullets if i recall correctly. I feel that a +/- 3-inch MPBR is appropriate for rifles used to hunt Class 2 game, including the cartridges being evaluated here. figures for our comparison loads at the muzzle, 100 yards and at the 5 yard increment nearest to maximum point blank range (see below). (An exception is the Savage Model 99.) 4.6 out of 5 stars 21 product ratings. The bottom line is that there's no question that the Ti-Rant 45 is safe with .450 Bushmaster subsonic loads since the pressure at the muzzle is less than a 230gr .45 ACP from a 5" barrel. In such situations, there's a lot to be said for having a full magazine of instant-follow-up semi-auto heavy-bullet shots at your disposal. Winchester has announced that the Winchester XPR bolt action rifle will be chambered in .350 Legend. But great choice I'm real happy with mine. KPS values at the five yard increment closest to each load MPBR are included, to document the power of the loads near the longest range at which a responsible hunter should use them. Results are in descending order of MPBR. Sectional density (SD) is the ratio of a bullet's weight in pounds to the square of its diameter in inches. Winchester touts the .350 Legend as "designed for deer hunting out to 250 yards." These, though, are powerful handgun cartridges that have found something of a second home in rifles, rather than being designed from the ground up as rifle cartridges. For instance, if the games are deers, the 450 is more than capable. Of course it will. 6mm Creedmoor: Everything You Need To Know. A well designed bolt rifle also carries and mounts well, but cycles slower than a lever gun. (I base this on the far zero ranges of the loads, as detailed above.). SD affects penetration, as all other factors being equal (bullet construction, for example) the bullet with the highest sectional density will penetrate deepest. At the end I will summarize results, muse about rifle platforms and make some concluding remarks. Results are in descending order of MPBR yardage. In this article, the .350 Legend is evaluated against the .450 Bushmaster and .50 Beowulf. "It is my understanding that Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana have mandated that rifles shooting cartridges of at least .35 caliber with straight wall cases between 1.16 and 1.8 inches in length are now legal for use in what I believe Michigan calls the "limited firearms deer zone." These large diameter, straight wall cartridges should not be sighted-in and used for shots at or beyond 200 yards, as the trajectory data, below, confirms. Lever action rifles, such as the Winchester Model 94, Marlin Model 336 and Henry Lever Action .30-30, carry and mount well and cycle fast when more than a single shot is needed. All in all, the .350 Legend has potential as an effective hunting cartridge, especially when fed 180 grain bullets that have adequate sectional density for deer and hog hunting. I worked the numbers for a 250 grain.450 Bushmaster load, a 300 grain.458 SOCOM load and a 325 grain.50 Beowulf load. .450 Bushmaster This is the smallest of the thumpers, with a bullet diameter of .452". Then I, with helpful editorial support from Chuck, compared the .30-30 Winchester and the .350 Legend and the .35 Remington and the .350 Legend. case. (See Are AR-15 Type Cartridges Good for Hunting Deer?). Here are the velocity in feet-per-second (fps) and energy in foot-pounds (ft. Energy is an important component of killing power, as will be discussed below. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - 458 SOCOM vs. 450 Bushmaster vs. 50 Beowulf (Page 2 of 2) ARCHIVED; Previous Page. Briefly, here are the key results. Share - Magazine Follower 450 Bushmaster 458 SOCOM 50 Beowulf With 223 Adapter. Not only is it generally consistent with results in the field, it can be used to compare any load at any range and includes the factors of energy at impact (which includes velocity), SD and cross-sectional area in an easy to use formula to arrive at a Killing Power Score (KPS) for a given load at a given distance, via the formula: KPS at "y" yards (you pick the yardage) = (impact energy at y yards) x (sectional density) x (cross-section area), or simply: KPS @ y = E @ y x SD x A, (Cross-section areas are .1001 sq. The cartridge was a joint development between Hornady and Bushmaster, and it was designed with a rebated rim that seats on the mouth of the cartridge. These numbers clearly show that the Legend is a powder puff, compared with the heavy recoiling .45- and .50- caliber cartridges. However, if one were tempted to use these bullets on Class 3 or large Class 2 game, then potential poor penetration of low SD bullets becomes a real issue. Here are the SD numbers for our comparison bullets, in descending order. The loads being compared are not clearly specified, which is why I say the information is vague. 4.6 average based on 21 product ratings. The .458 SOCOM guy Joined Feb 2001; Posts 3461; EE Offline; TX, USA. All three loads get MPBR yardage and KPS scores that are adequate (greater than 15.0) for use against Class 2 game in general. Obviously, to kill cleanly, any hunting bullet must penetrate into the animal's vitals, so hunting bullet SD is important. Why not consider the .458 SOCOM too? However, I caution against making too much of this, given the submarginal sectional densities of the .45 and .50 caliber bullets. Bullet placement is the most important factor in achieving quick, humane kills, so anything that makes hitting easier is desirable. .450 Bushmaster load The 45–70 has been a popular cartridge for use against the great bears even in the black powder days. I think I am leaing towards the the .450 Bushmaster, I have a good supply of .452/.451 bullets, and there are more factory ammo options available if needed. I have studied the non-proprietary, small and large caliber cartridges designed to work in the AR15 platform. My guesstimate is that this load will generate about 9 ft. lbs. One of the best, in terms of positive correlation with reality, has proven to be the G&S Online Rifle Cartridge Killing Power Formula. I had the exact same question. Compared: Winchester .350 Legend, .450 Bushmaster and .50 Beowulf. SimpliSafe is home security that is contract-free, easy-to-use, and customizable. The other two arent. About AR15.COM. Shotgun Gauges Explained: 10 vs 12 vs 16 vs 20 vs 28 vs 410. Trajectories are rounded to one decimal place; yardage is noted in parentheses. 300 grain FTX: KPS at 100 yds. This may be the only good reason for hunting regulations dictating short, straight wall cases with large caliber bullets. and 23.1 ft. It uses a rebated rim cartridge case based on the .284 Win. My argument is that a prudent and responsible hunter should never attempt a shot at a game animal beyond the MPBR of the cartridge/load being used (and closer is always better). The .450 Bushmaster is a product of more modern times. in. This is a safety benefit, for it lessens the chance of an errant bullet striking a person or property somewhere far down range. Meanwhile, my limited experience with AR15s in the field is that they are unwieldy to carry and awkward to mount, but that may be just me. In doing so, I am debating / weighing the pros and cons of the 3 heaviest calibers available for the AR platform, those being the .50 Beowulf by Alexander Arms, the .450 Bushmaster (by Bushmaster, obviously) and, the .458 SOCOM. .350 Legend load I would not trust the penetration of those bullets on large animals at distances much beyond 100 yards. 100-150 yards would be a unusual long shot for my hunting situations. This high-intensity MAP is no problem with bolt action and AR designs, but a lever rifle chambered in .350 Legend should have a front-locking bolt, such as the Browning BLR and Henry Long Ranger designs. In the article noted above, Chuck Hawks explained the background and importance of the characteristics of these cartridges, as follows. Winchester Super-X 180 grain Power Point (PP) - BC .221. Copyright © 2000-2020 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Copyright 2019 by Gary Zinn and/or chuckhawks.com. = 33.6, .350 Legend, Win. 300 grain FTX: KPS at 100 yds. .450 Bushmaster, Hornady 250 grain FTX: 191 / 164, .350 Legend, Winchester 180 grain PP: 185 / 158, .500 Beowulf, Hornady 300 grain FTX: 174 / 149, .450 Bushmaster, Hdy. I have local deal available for either the .450 Bushmaster or the .50 Beowulf. I am looking at getting a new big bore upper for my AR15, either 450 bushmaster or 50 Beowulf. Conversely, the abuse the Bushmaster and Beowulf heap on the shooter is not well rewarded by downrange performance. 450 Bushmaster vs 458 SOCOM vs 50 Beowulf: Battle Of The Big Bore AR Cartridges. I have local deal available for either the .450 Bushmaster or the .50 Beowulf. 50 and 458 have their own advantages. I calculated the killing power of these loads at 100 yards, as most whitetail deer, blacktail deer and feral hogs are killed at 100 yards or less. MartytW. 450 BUSHMASTER UPPER; 458 SOCOM Upper; 5.56 NATO 223 Wylde Upper. Note that all five loads, sighted-in for +/- 3 inch MPBR, shoot right at three inches high at 100 yards. Low extended range velocity of these loads also works against both penetration and bullet expansion. Our KPS parameters and results assume vital area hits, of course. Here at Guns and Shooting Online, we have made something of a cottage industry of evaluating the performance of the recently introduced .350 Legend cartridge, compared with other relevant cartridges. Any short-action platform that handles the .223 Remington can be easily reworked to handle the .350 Legend cartridge. Hornady 300 grain FTX - BC .200 (Handload, based on .50 Beowulf data in Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading, 10th edition.). = 47.5; KPS at 190 yds. For old school deer hunters (like me) the lever action is perhaps the best all-around platform for a hunting cartridge. = 22.6; KPS at 185 yds. The MPBR numbers say that this is an over-reach, for the 180 grain load, as well as the cartridges and loads with which it is compared. (I say this even though I have carried compact, short-action bolt rifles on the majority of my deer hunts.) The negative is ammo/brass supply. Something with power that I can hunt deer and pigs. AR thumper .450 Bushmaster Vs. .50 Beowulf, Re: AR thumper .450 Bushmaster Vs. .50 Beowulf. Winchester has also announced 150 and 160 grain hunting loads for the .350 Legend. Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3. I believe the .450 ammo would be easier to come by. This is typical of medium velocity cartridges in general. As the acronym implies (Special Operations Command), members of special operations units were unhappy with the 5.56 rounds ability to bring down the enemy quickly and with as few shots as possible in combat while using platforms such as the M4 and M16.After deliberations and experimentation, the .458 SOCOM came to be in the early 2000’s. Neophyte, small statured, and recoil adverse shooters would find the .350 Legend much more pleasant to shoot, so would shoot it better. The loads are listed in descending order of their MV. Are AR-15 Type Cartridges Good for Hunting Deer? I do not consider these to be Class 3 cartridges, KPS scores notwithstanding. This does not bode well for these bullets penetrating deeply on heavy bodied animals. These two are probably more similar than different, but the devil is in the details. It is also the most important factor when computing kinetic energy. Not the .450 SOCOM. 180 grain PP: +2.9" (100), -3.0" (185), -15.7" (250), .500 Beowulf, Hdy. (in the foreground), and .50 Beowulf, .450 Bushmaster and .458 Socom (in the background) is apparent. in., .1605 sq. = 47.5; KPS at 190 yds. On the other hand, the .50 Beowulf has a .447″ rim diameter, which is the same as the 7.62x39mm cartridge used in the AK-47. These are powerful loads, with 100 yard KPS values of 53.6 and 53.8 for the Beowulf and Bushmaster loads, respectively, while the SOCOM load has a 100 yard KPS of 58.7. CMMG has announced an AR15 carbine (with a 16 inch barrel) in the cartridge, plus 5 and 10 round magazines. .458 SOCOM vs. .450 Bushmaster Differences. I have 6.8 spc and 7.62x39 uppers which worked well for hunting last year. = 54.1; KPS at 175 yds. (Formerly 'shotguns only,' I believe, for deer hunting.)". = 33.6.350 Legend, Win.

Cheapest Golf Cart Rental South Padre Island, Is Uncle Ben's Ready Rice Kosher, Design Team Best Practices, Neffs Canyon Fire Map, Donna Karan Dresses On Sale, Weird Food Names, Kamande In English, Restaurant Furniture Autocad Blocks, Senior Web Designer Skills,