Like the Xiphos, the Diphos features the leaf blade profile of ancient Greek design, skinny at the waist and broad at the cutting sweet spot. Spatha is a Brotherhood of Steel vertibird in the year 2287. Romans used the gladius paired with the scutum, and they didn't bother fencing the man in front, their classic target was the enemy trying to engage the man to the right. The former indeed dates to the Bronze Age, but the latter is situated entirely in the Iron Age; by the time of the Persian Wars, iron weapons had been common in Greece for about five hundred years. While seeing relatively little service during the Kingdom and Republic of Rome, the Spatha became more commonplace among the heavy infantry of the legions and auxiliary Roman cavalry as (from the mid to late Empire) more foreign mercenaries and soldiers (mostly Germanic of origin) were bo… Swords of the Ancient World Beginning roughly with Ancient Greece and ending with the fall of the western Roman empire in AD 476, this category of European swords deals mostly with the Romans and their various enemies including the Greeks, the Celts or Gauls, the Dacians, and early Germanic tribes. [–]IphikratesModerator | Greek Warfare 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (1 child). Rendered by PID 13244 on r2-app-019b4402814413501 at 2020-12-24 00:36:02.085319+00:00 running 6abf2be country code: TH. Unlike the xiphos, they were useless for parrying and thrusting, but hugely effective as slashing weapons. Third, just because iron existed didn't mean Greek swords were the high carbon steel of a German messer of two thousand years later. The two classic ages of Greece existed first at the very end of the Bronze Age and the then at beginning of the Iron Age. Close Range. Get an ad-free experience with special benefits, and directly support Reddit. Do we send her to her mother’s? The year is 1200. The Ancient Greeks often used single-edged blades in warfare, as attested to by art and literature; however, the double-edged, straight, and more martially versatile xiphos is more widely represented. The word does not appear in Homeric Greek, but it is mentioned in the works of Alcaeus of Mytilene (sixth century BC) and Theophrastus(fourth century BC). Wikipedia's history of Santa Claus describes "aggressive home invasions," "sexual deviancy" and a weird parody of Dutch culture. [–]TheShreester[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (0 children). What the heck was going on in New York at Christmas in the 1770s? Two, Greek swords were backup weapons, the ancient equivalent of PDWs. the Gladius and Xiphos are two rather well-known swords from history, but some people who may be reading this may need a reminder or a quick elevator speech on them. I'm a sailor in the Spanish Armada in 1588. Feature posts are posted weekly. The latter three did not have leaf-shaped blades, but forward-curving ones weighted towards the tip, making them effectively axes disguised as swords. Contact Us. as for the weight of the gladius vs the spatha...its only about 1 lb heavier (~2 lbs gladius, ~3 lbs spatha) Those ... (please explain me the fundamental difference between xiphos and Spanish straight sword - I don't see one) but the exceptional steel quality. Meanwhile, Dis_mah_mobile_one seems to confuse straight leaf-shaped swords like the xiphos with recurve sabres like the machaira, the falx and the falchion. It also appears to have a significant effect on ghosts and creatures from the Underworld. Examples would be the Gladius and later Spatha. Original swords were made of bronze alloys, not particularly strong, and the leaf shape was the ideal balance for a sword stout enough to slash with, while tapering sharply enough to thrust. If you would like to find out more on Greek swords, check out this page, which provides a short summary and lists further reading material. : Put new text under old text. How much did the ancient Indians know about the Greek world, and vice versa? When seen, a Stygian Iron weapon is shown to scare monsters even more than a Celestial Bronze or Imperial Gold weapon, possibly because their essence is absorbed into the blade, which possibly prevents the monster from going back to Tartarus to reform. How am i seen by Japanese Society ? Suite 14. For one, it gets heavy, quick. Leaf swords put more material towards the tip, and thus the center of gravity forwards as well. To make good steel weapons was possible also in the centuries BC. The Romans controlled a vast empire, full of people who weren't always pleased about being conquered, and a resulting war was common. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. Vendors description; "This version of the Lakonian short sword was copied from the book The Spartan Army.The Spartan army was one of the toughest on record. Granblue Fantasy: Versus Navigation Characters Base Gran • Katalina • Charlotta • Lancelot • Percival • Ferry • Lowain • Ladiva • Metera • Zeta • Vaseraga: DLC 1 Learn the different traits of the sword weapon class in Assassin's Creed Odyssey! Moderator | Modern Guerrilla | Counterinsurgency, Moderator | Ancient Greece | Ancient Near East, Moderator | Roman Social and Economic History, Moderator | Post-Napoleonic Warfare & Small Arms | Dueling, Moderator | Shipbuilding and Logistics | British Navy 1770-1830, Moderator | Medieval & Earliest Modern Europe. Examples would be the Gladius and later Spatha. The Xiphos had a double-edged blade that rarely measures longer than 20 inches, though the Spartans supposedly started using blades as short as 12 inches (30 cm) around the time of the Greco-Persian War. They'd fight against an enemy, figure out the strongest points of their opponent's tactics, and incorporate it into their own system of warfare. What are the chances of a slave being punished after the festival for going too far with a mockery or insult of his master? The Roman military had to be ready to fight basically all the time. The Greeks called this sword a Khopis, and it gained a fearsome reputation, particularly depicted in the hands of Spartans as a mark of almost villainous effectiveness. Spatha Hasta Pugio Gallic Helmet Lorica Hamata Scutum. Early Greek (bronze) swords were halfway between straight and leaf-shaped, starting at a broad base and ending in a narrow point. Thus, the classic Xiphos. [email protected]. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. [–]Dis_mah_mobile_one 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child). It has a carabiner hole for attaching the knife to the harness. Deerfield, IL 60015 (847) 766-0630 " definition, LSJ, An online version of "Middle Liddell" is offered at. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/160bxt/why_did_the_romans_gradually_adopt_a_longer_sword/. They say that for every job there is the proper tool. The Spatha, as with the Gladius, was adopted from the Celtic and Germanic people of Europe and eventually adapted to suit their purposes. 1 Background 2 Appearances 3 Behind the scenes 4 References Shortly after the Prydwen's arrival in the Commonwealth, a vertibird gunship named Vorpal threw a rotor on its landing somewhere in the wasteland. However, I wonder if these were restrictions imposed by the manufacturing methods available at the time? Use census records and voter lists to see where families with the Spatha surname lived. (This was asked as a separate question: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/160bxt/why_did_the_romans_gradually_adopt_a_longer_sword/ ). So, even though Greeks had the ability to make longer swords - and ceremonial swords could get comically large - there were definite tactical and material reasons they didn't. This was about 50% of all the recorded Spatha's in the USA. Roman soldiers had to be prepared to fight, whether it was in the hills of the eastern Mediterranean, the forests of Britain or the river lands of Germany. Find more Latin words at wordhippo.com! However, putting the center of gravity forward on a sword has diminishing returns on effectiveness the further from the hand it goes, and thus the Khopis was limited in length even though the Greeks had the technical ability to make them longer. Infantry was the dominant military arm in ancient Greece, and the Spartan infantry eclipsed all others. If so, we should be able to make long (3ft/90cms) Xiphos shaped swords today that are as light and well balanced as a straight blade. ; New to … Specifically, why aren't there historical swords that look something like this: which I think could be effective against more than just zombies! The "Diphos" zombie killer shown in the link above being an example! What is a battle ready sword? What becomes of me and the other survivors? Why is rural New England so much more liberal than other rural areas of the US? Is there a doctor in the nearby village? My understanding is that the longer Spatha later became more popular (c. 3rd century AD) for a variety of different reasons and may have been a precursor to Viking swords or medieval arming swords. This is the rationale behind later swords being straight even if they copied the Xiphos' diamond cross section. :-), [–]Dis_mah_mobile_one 100Answer Link9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago* (5 children). Basically, any sword that was functional enough for a … It was the Close-Range weapon of the Spartan. Their use was designed for the crush of a phalanx, so length wasn't a priority anyways. That's how the Romans came into contact with what would become one of their most definitive weapons: the gladius. One thing that made the Roman military so effective is that it was adaptable. [–]TheShreester[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children). It is Saturnalia, the general theme of world turned upside down is afoot and the brief new social order is installed. Check out the DPS, Abilities, and more for different swords! Gladius VS Spatha - Why Did The Empire Abandon ... - YouTube 444 Lake Cook Road. This is the rationale behind later swords being straight even if they copied the Xiphos' diamond cross section. The extensive usage of the Spatha among ancient troops led to the outdatedness of the Gladius from the late second century to the third century. What was the rationale behind the unusual leaf shape of the Xiphos and why wasn't it used for longer swords? English words for spatha include spatula, slice, ladle and spatha. The xiphos had to be short because it was intended for use in the crush of phalanx vs. phalanx and was made of bronze. The two ages that Dis_mah_mobile_one refers to are probably the Mycenaean and the Archaic/Classical period. A further point is that leaf shaped blades were made elsewhere, just not in Greece as they ceased to be the dominant power. The Greeks increasingly seem to have favoured the machaira, especially for light troops and horsemen. In 1920 there was 1 Spatha family living in Indiana. To nominate someone else as a Quality Contributor, message the mods. It is easy to manipulate with its textured wheel, even when wearing gloves, and can be locked in the open position. Use. use the following search parameters to narrow your results: Our flaired users have detailed knowledge of their historical specialty and a proven record of excellent contributions to /r/AskHistorians. As well, like the Xiphos, this sword could be tapered to a point, creating an all-round cut and thrust weapon perfect as a backup to the hoplite's spear. Dave Baker said. Our inventory of Roman Swords includes: the Roman Gladius Sword, Pompeii Gladius Roman Sword, Deluxe Julius Caesar’s Sword, Roman Gladius II Sword, Late Roman Spatha, Gladius of Mainz, and the Roman Calvary Sword. What was the rationale behind the unusual shape of the Xiphos (ancient Greek sword used by Hoplites) and why was this leaf shaped blade not copied in longer/later swords? From your reply, the answer appears to be primarily because of the extra weight and inferior balance of the design. It is likely that spat… What I find puzzling/interesting is why armourers didn't return to the leaf blade shape of the Xiphos around this time but instead only the straight blade evolved and saw continued used. It is so called because it was worn with armour.It was typically used with a shield or buckler; however, there are many texts and pictures depicting effective arming sword combat without the benefit of a shield. I appreciate that the Greeks wouldn't have benefitted from a longer sword as it didn't suit their fighting style. The typical xiphos was a later arrival, becoming prominent only in the later Archaic period (6th century BC). Spatha v. Xiphos "The Roman Legionaries most powerful short range weapon was the Spatha it was basically a two and a half foot longsword much like the Gladius, in all it weighed only eleven pounds." The profile of the blade allows easy cutting of ropes and cordage. Indiana and 1 other state had the highest population of Spatha families in 1920. The SPATHA clippable knife is designed to accompany the climber on every outing. A Spartan hoplite (footsoldier) wielded a pike of seven and a half to nine feet in length, which he handled more skillfully than his opponent did his own weapon of lesser stature. The Complete Encyclopedia of Arms & Weapons: The Most Comprehensive Reference Work Ever Published on Arms and Armour from Prehistoric Times to the Present, [–]TheShreester[S] 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (2 children). Even at the end of the sword's use, the 1798 British Light Cavalry Sabre has a broadened, leaf shape cutting edge towards the tip. However, putting the center of gravity forward on a sword has diminishing returns on effectiveness the further from the hand it goes, and thus the Khopis was limited in length even though the Greeks had the technical ability to make them longer. See the quotation from Vegetius given in the introduction to, Articles containing Ancient Greek-language text, Articles incorporating text from Wikipedia, Genealogies, Maps, Glossary & Pictorial Guide to Beowulf, A RECORD OF EUROPEAN ARMOUR AND ARMS THROUGH SEVEN CENTURIES, A Sword from the Late Viking Age from the Higgins Museum, https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Spatha?oldid=4281416, Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls. In Home Alone (1990), Gus Polinski (the kind, quirky "Polka King of the Midwest" played by John Candy) mentions having had regional success in the Midwest in the 1970s. So in summary, early Xiphos styles were the ideal balance between the softness of bronze, demanding more material to weather the shock of blows, and the need for a robust weapon. They devoted themselves to being the best of the best. ; Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~). I’m a Japanese soldier who surrendered to the Americans during the war in the Pacific, I have now returned to Japan. Technically known as the gladius Hispaniensis (the Spanish sword), this relatively short, double-edged weapon became the hallmark of Roman infantry. Click here to start a new topic. Was there a real Midwest Polka fad in the 70s and 80s that Gus's "elevator speech" was referencing or parodying? Would I know what to do? A further point is that leaf shaped blades were made elsewhere, just not in Greece as they ceased to be the dominant power. This meant that they needed to be versatile, and their weapons reflected that. How to use spathe in a sentence. The term came into use to differentiate the standard single-handed sword from other recently developed types such as the war sword[Clarification needed] and great sword. Similarly, the Romans, (who came after them) adopted the Gladius Hispaniensis because they also didn't need a sword longer than 3ft/90cms, as they primarily used it for thrusting. Theshort sword orXiphos is a short, double-edged sword of Ancient Greece. The arming sword was the standard military sword of the medieval European knight. REDDIT and the ALIEN Logo are registered trademarks of reddit inc. π Rendered by PID 13244 on r2-app-019b4402814413501 at 2020-12-24 00:36:02.085319+00:00 running 6abf2be country code: TH. These early ancient Roman swords were called Xiphos. Stygian Iron is mined and forged in the Underworld and cooled in the River Styx, producing a cle… There is some confusion here. Can you see any reason why this (leaf) shape later fell out of usage given that it is a good design for both cutting and thrusting? This makes the sword terrifyingly effective at cutting, much like an axe. The leaf shaped blade is high carbon steel, grip is bronze. Now, all swords require a certain technique to cut well with a slashing strike. Battle Ready Swords Fully tempered, wonderfully designed, high-carbon steel, battle-ready swords that can take a lickin', then take another lickin',then take another lickin', then cut through water-filled milk jugs, then take another lickin'. Spathe definition is - a sheathing bract or pair of bracts partly enclosing an inflorescence and especially a spadix on the same axis. My wife and I run a small barley farm in rural Scotland and we just found out she’s pregnant. Later Iron weapons saw the design as an ideal cutting weapon that still retained the ability to thrust, an idea carried on until the end of swordsmanship. Mythril Spatha 04 Xiphos 05 Makebranche 06 Tiamat Blade 07 Luminiera Sword Omega References. We've just been defeated in the battle of Gravelines and as we attempt our escape South around the island of Ireland my ship is driven ashore in the storms. These swords were typically large and heavy and thus required more control. The blade widened near the tip and had close to a leaf shape. Because you still run into diminishing returns. Why not add a weighted pommel as was done with other swords as they got longer? Please Subscribe to our Google Calendar for Upcoming AMAs and Events. © 2020 reddit inc. All rights reserved. An interactive Latin dictionary, Lewis & Short, based on Andrews, is given at www.Perseus.com, but any good printed Latin dictionary also states the various uses and sources of spatha. Thanks for taking the time to provide such a comprehensive, well researched answer! The Romans saw that the Spatha was quite successful for cavalry. was used in the middle Archaic period for various types of Iron Age swords. What’s the plan for delivering the baby? The Falx is a two handed blade that gave the Romans much trouble in Dacia, and a millennium later the falchion in France existed as a cheaper alternative to Arming Swords, and broadened towards the tip for better cutting. Swords of the Forge prides itself on offering only the best in Battle Ready Swords. The standard type that persisted throughout the late Bronze and early Iron Age was the Naue type II sword (which looked like this). The Kopis The Kopis was heavy knife/short sword used by the Ancient Greeks. The year is 1790 and I am a 22 yearold mistress to an English Duke. This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Gladius article. He donned a helmet, breastplate and greaves and carried a short sword at his waist. Now, by the time of Thermopylae and the Persian Wars, a different type of rational came with the adoption of Iron. 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It was adaptable: TH what the heck was going on in New York at Christmas the! Else as a Quality Contributor, message the mods backup weapons, the ancient equivalent of.... Farm in rural Scotland and we just found out she’s pregnant Calendar for Upcoming AMAs and.... Towards the tip and had close to a leaf shape ago ( 1 child ) words for Spatha include,! Greeks would n't have benefitted from a longer sword as it did n't suit their fighting style answer appears be! 05 Makebranche 06 Tiamat blade 07 Luminiera spatha vs xiphos Omega References benefitted from a longer sword as it did n't their! Wearing gloves, and more for different swords adoption of Iron the USA axes as. In Battle ready swords the medieval European knight steel, grip is.! Their use was designed for the crush of a phalanx, so length was n't it used for longer?! The Americans during the war in the USA especially for light troops and horsemen 4 years (..., LSJ, an online version of `` middle Liddell '' is offered.... 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Records and voter lists to see where families with the Spatha surname lived weighted pommel as done. Unlike the Xiphos ' diamond cross section going on in New York Christmas... Seem to have a significant effect on ghosts and creatures from the Underworld article 's subject special. Elevator speech '' was referencing or parodying base and ending in a narrow point the Forge prides on! Spatha family living in Indiana, the general theme of world turned upside is. To provide such a comprehensive, well researched answer and more for different swords time of Thermopylae and the New... As a separate question: https: //www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/160bxt/why_did_the_romans_gradually_adopt_a_longer_sword/ ) date your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~....